I would have to disagree here, the sound isn’t “raspy” it sounds fine too me, maybe a bit raspy, but the amount that is allowable for a metal guitar. It’s overly distorted and shouldn’t be used by itself, but you can use it other ways, with other instruments that make it sound better(also do you like metal? because if you don’t I would understand your objection with the sound)
Maybe we should make a poll or something to see who likes your example.
My own experience with the metal guitar really leads me in the same direction. It really is an over-used, terrible sounding instrument and i wish there was an overdriven guitar that didn’t quit after a random period of time based on it’s pitch.
I think it’s safe to say that using it for chords is useless. It is obviously slightly off, not enough to notice if you are using single notes, but when you use a chord, well just don’t. I’ve done some experimenting, and here’s what I’ve come up with for single notes with the metal guitar:
- First and foremost, itself. Can’t stress it enough how great panning really is.
- Bass #4 (only if you are being lazy with your bass work)
- Low Piano (This is the only instrument I could find that somehow was able to overpower the metal guitar. Use them at the same volume)
- Clean guitar @ 3x the volume (at very low octaves)
- Accordion @ 3x to 4x the volume (only for very long notes, as the accordion has a lot of attack)
Other than that, I think that the metal guitar should really be used as a background instrument. Put it in a scratchy techno song at incredibly low volume and see where that goes, because as we know most of the synths can’t hold a note out. I also found that if you take a .wav recording of it and put it into a sampler for another music creator (in my case, FL Studio), it works flawlessly. I was able to make the most intricate of aug, add9, and sus2 chords, etc. And it all sounded fine as far as pitch goes. I blame Notessimo 2 for somehow ruining a ruined instrument. I just hate how there is little alternative.
@ixsetf: I love all the old metal from the 80s.
@star I was talking to DC about the do you like metal thing
Ok first of, I do not intend to say that the metal guitar is a good instrument for general things, it’s not, but it is one of a very few instruments that hasINTENSITY. By intensity I mean that if you want a powerful in your face song, you need an intense instrument, not just for metal but for rock also, if you look at the rock thread alot of them use metal guitar. The reason is that, A the strat is a very weak sounding and quiet instrument the fender is good but has a problem that it sticks out as a high note, the overdrive guitar is just horrible for most things, and the damant is alot like the strat(weak sounding).
Because of this, the metal guitar has an undeniable use, something that you can’t just leave out. I was just saying the ways that I use the metal guitar, not that it makes the instrument great or even good, but that it improves the sound and that can be helpful in many cases.
I think he was trying to make a point about describing how he didn’t like the metal guitar, but also refuting your claim that dislike of metal overall decreases your appreciation of it. I, for one, prefer metal over most other genres - I listen to melodeath, thrash, progressive, power, math, etc, and I still think it’s a terrible instrument - but I think you missed a trick with what I was saying - shit, I agree with everything you posted in your last post, but the point I was making was about it’s frequencies and it’s unpredictability as a single instrument, whereas you’re focusing on it’s nature, and how it works in a song.
Star actually helped me a bit here, 'cause I was gonna record your riff, run it through FL’s parametric EQ (which maps out all the currently playing frequencies) and show you how there’s gonna be all these little over-tonal frequencies that sneak in a ruin the sound when you use it for chords (they’re fine for single notes because they’ve got no other weird frequencies to interact with, but they do with 2+ notes) - but star’s actually confirmed that that’s a problem (with notessimo), so I’ll leave that for now. I actually encourage use of it whenever it’s used for single notes and in the lower registers, but can you really say that
a) the notes actually work together WELL and are distinguishable as individual notes when you use 2+ notes at a time, and
the notes sound in anyway good or realistic when you use them past the 3rd-4th octaves? (like I was saying, “raspy”)
So yeah, all in all, it’s a dangerous instrument to use, which is mainly the point I was trying to get across. Sure, it sounds brilliant sometimes, and it has it’s uses which I encourage when used well, but it’s just so hard to use well, which leads me to label it as terrible as it is.
You typed a really big response.
Yeah I’ve never seen DC post anything that big before.
Accordion and Metal guitar. :3
Like anyone actually uses that combination.
Trombone and Trumpets :3
*Deep Breath
First things first, gah I love this thread.
Anywho ixsetf’s point is completely pointless, because if we look at the end of my post under a microscope we see that:
I already addressed this. This last sentence is all I needed to say that there really is no alternative for real rock and roll, but imo the problem is that the guitar is so powerful that it pushes the song into being a metal piece just by being there really. There is a good reason it was named the Metal Guitar you know.
Now, I completely agree with just about everything Ix said, including that that there are few instruments that have INTENSITY like the metal guitar (I’ll post my recommendations for intensity at the bottom). However, rock is not about in your face power that can get your head banging. That sounds a lot like metal to me. Also, we’ve already established that is an over-used instrument, because, as I just stated, there really is no alternative.
Now, on to DC’s post, or rather the two questions:
With those answered I have but one more thing to say. I think that the guitar electric, when placed lower than the bass clef, is a decent alternative. It sounds cleaner and works well with as a chord. It’s much easier to therefore go all out with it and actually incorporate real chords in your rock and roll songs. The other, more obvious choice is the fender, which achieves the same requirements that we seek but doesn’t have the power. It’s of course up to you guys to choose between the three and I have no doubt that the metal guitar will forever limp on as the first choice unless Starburst is to magically come back (like he did in March) and add more instruments.
Here is my list of Power instruments and the top two genres I would use them in:
- Metal guitar (rock, metal)
- Low Piano (piano only, orchestral)
- Any of the assorted hits (general, as it’s good for just giving a sharp power increase)
- Timpani (Orchestral, Ambient)
- Tubular Bells (Orchestral, Horror
- Tuba (Orchestral, March)
- Church Organ (Orchestral, Horror)
Notice 1: I didn’t put in drum kit instruments because they should be obvious. I didn’t put in SFX because they aren’t an actual part of the song, more of an impressive glitter to impress everyone who listens to it. Not to say that they are bad, they just require no theory at all and almost always have no pitch.
Notice 2: There is a pattern in the genres i recommended. Except for the metal guitar, orchestral instruments dominated this. You must realize that there aren’t too many genres that require power.
ok long reply to long reply go.
First Gah I greatly enjoy the conversations of this thread.
Second my point isn’t completely pointless because it has a point,
we agreed on most everything, I was just pointing that out as a reason not to dismiss my post.
There really are few alternatives for anything beyond mid- intensity rock. I believe if you use the trick with different levels of volume you can get a wide variety of guitar sounds, they start being useful for rock at about 2clean:1metal
Some rock is about intensity, and most of the guitars are only strong enough for one end of rocks wide spectrum(the MJ-pop end).
the is a distinction between overuse and overused, overuse is bad, overused means there is no real way to fix it. Just because it is overused dosen’t mean we should use it less if that makes sense.
@DC I hope you aren’t impling that you dislike thrash metal, real Thrash If thats not what your saying, that great
Also I think the high octaves worked fairly well in the solo I did with QVX in our recent collab.
most of the rest I agree with.
Okay first things first, in saying that your post was pointless, that doesn’t mean stupid or useless. I’m just saying that because you were talking about a point that everyone agreed on already, there wasn’t much point in it. Still a good post.
And as for your collab, the solo was nice but I think it would’ve been better if the fender had been used alone and the metal guitar was used as a background chord at low octaves. It’s screechiness just doesn’t work well at all at high octaves, and I think the solo was lack depth because there was only the drums to back it up. I don’t really count the bass because it was never loud enough.
So where have we gotten now? We seem to agree that the metal guitar is
- Terrible sounding
- Horribly tuned
- To powerful for rock but the alternatives are too light
- Overused (apparently this is a good thing >_>)
Overall, it’s not horrible if you use it. Just be careful.
New Instrument for discussion: Acoustic Guitar, arguably the most dynamic sounding instrument in notessimo. What’s sounds good with it?
By what ive found-
Acoustic+Strings #2
Acoustic+Damant Spectrum
-sound pretty dang good, and IMO underused
I believe Ixsetf likes the metal guitar, star (and doesn’t think it is terrible sounding).
AHEM:
acoustic works with strat Oohs and bass 4
I don’t get this thread at all.
Sometimes you just have to read the posts. People are saying what instruments sound good together.